<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Sounds good. Thanks.<br>
<br>
On 2/1/10 2:05 PM, Brett L. Schuchert wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:153ACE74-7AB5-4463-B4A8-59A6C1931D91@yahoo.com"
type="cite">OK, then it is settled. That's the presentation for next
week.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Title: </div>
<div>Get your business out of my face (working title that is)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Description:</div>
<div>Testing a system through its UI is often seen as the gold
standard of testing. However, practice shows that an ill-designed
system is not easily testable through its UI, and even worse, the
implementation leaves testing through the UI as the only option.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In this 60 minute talk, Brett will demonstrate one example of
moving business logic out of the UI and then describe the kind of
testing that should be done against the UI. This talk will begin with a
code demonstration and end with a discussion of UI-oriented testing
techniques.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(VERY rough draft, I'll revise before the meeting tomorrow.)<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:33 PM 2/1/10, Les Martin wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">That is exactly what I've been working on
lately... big productions issues as a result... I'm liking where this
is going! :-)<br clear="all">
/**********************************************<br>
* Les Martin *<br>
* <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gangof10.blogspot.com/">http://gangof10.blogspot.com</a>
*<br>
* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://approaching-agile.blogspot.com/">http://approaching-agile.blogspot.com</a>
*<br>
***********************************************/<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Chad
Gorshing <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gorshing@gmail.com">gorshing@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I
like that, there is a lot of code which has business logic stuck on<br>
the UI side where it does not belong.<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Brett L. Schuchert <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:schuchert@yahoo.com">schuchert@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> What about doing something on the blog I did last year related to
making UI<br>
> code more testable?<br>
> Taking something that's not testable in the UI and then testing it?<br>
> That dovetails with Les' suggestion.<br>
> On Feb 1, 2010, at 12:23 PM 2/1/10, Les Martin wrote:<br>
><br>
> topic suggestion:<br>
> "introducing unit tests to an untested legacy code base."<br>
> would be awesome! :-D<br>
> /**********************************************<br>
> * Les Martin *<br>
> * <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gangof10.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank">http://gangof10.blogspot.com</a> *<br>
> * <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://approaching-agile.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://approaching-agile.blogspot.com</a>
*<br>
> ***********************************************/<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Brett L. Schuchert <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:schuchert@yahoo.com">schuchert@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> OK, looks like I will not be in Israel again (yet), so I can
speak.<br>
>><br>
>> I don't have a subject, however.<br>
>><br>
>> Brett<br>
>> On Feb 1, 2010, at 10:57 AM 2/1/10, Jason Lee wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > Sounds good. Do we have a speaker? Brett?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 2/1/10 10:55 AM, Chad Gorshing wrote:<br>
>> >> Works for me<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Ryan Hoegg<<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ryan.hoegg@gmail.com">ryan.hoegg@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >>> Tomorrow at the CoCo then?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Chad Gorshing<<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gorshing@gmail.com">gorshing@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>>> Why don't we just put these on a recurring
schedule to meet at the<br>
>> >>>> CoCo?<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> I think we should meet though.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Paul
Smith<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul0731@gmail.com">paul0731@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>>> We were supposed to have the SC meeting
last week. Are we planning<br>
>> >>>>> on<br>
>> >>>>> having one or going 2 months in a row
without one?<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>>> sc mailing list<br>
>> >>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/" target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> sc mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/" target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> sc mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/" target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> sc mailing list<br>
>> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/" target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > Jason Lee, SCJP<br>
>> > President, Oklahoma City Java Users Group<br>
>> > Senior Java Developer, Sun Microsystems<br>
>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blogs.steeplesoft.com/" target="_blank">http://blogs.steeplesoft.com</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> sc mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/"
target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> sc mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/"
target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> sc mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/"
target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sc mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://wiki.okcjug.org/"
target="_blank">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sc mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.okcjug.org">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
sc mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sc@lists.okcjug.org">sc@lists.okcjug.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org">http://lists.okcjug.org/listinfo.cgi/sc-okcjug.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.okcjug.org">http://wiki.okcjug.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/okcjug/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jason Lee, SCJP
President, Oklahoma City Java Users Group
Senior Java Developer, Sun Microsystems
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blogs.steeplesoft.com">http://blogs.steeplesoft.com</a></pre>
</body>
</html>